A Conversation With President Sebastián Piñera of Chile

President Piñera discusses short term and long term economic recovery after COVID-19, Chile’s new constitution, global governance, and the shifting geopolitics of Latin America.

EFFRON: Thank you and welcome to today's CFR meeting with President Sebastián Piñera of Chile. We have about three hundred members with us today, so we will try to get to as many of your questions as possible. I will speak for thirty minutes or so with the president and then we'll turn it over. The president is on his third visit to the Council in eight years, which makes him, in many ways, an honorary member of our organization. As many of you know, Mr. Piñera, one of the most successful business people in Latin America for much of his career before going into the political arena in the late 1980s. For the past thirty years, he's been a force not only in Chile, but really around the globe. A strong voice for democracy, human rights, economic opportunity, and obviously, also a very astute observer of all things the U.S., in fact, has two degrees from Harvard and has lived here for several years. With that will start in. Mr. President, we've obviously had in the U.S. a very momentous election, one that the world was watching carefully. You know both President Trump and President-elect Biden, in fact very well, good relationships. I know President-elect Biden was in Chile when he was vice president. How do you think the changing of administrations in the U.S. is going to have an impact more globally, particularly when you come from a background that says big global issues—current pandemic, economic issues, climate—require big global solutions?

PIÑERA: First of all, I hope that the electoral process will end soon and in good manners because that's democracy. You have to learn how to win and also you have to learn how to lose. You have to win in a humble way, and you have to lose in a gracious way. But I hope, also, that things will change for the better in some areas. You mentioned two of them. One is the climate change and global warming. I hope that the U.S. will come back to the Paris Agreement, because the only way to tackle, to face this huge challenge, is if we unite our forces. And the Paris Agreement, I think, is in good form. And it's working and we need the U.S. back into the Paris Agreement. A second change that I hope will happen is that this trade war between the U.S. and China and between the U.S. and other countries is not the right solution. We know that protectionism is not the solution for the problems that we are facing now. And the third change is how to deal with the COVID pandemia. Because again, country by country, were able in the past to face and solve the problems. Today, the situation is very different. We live in a globalized world and therefore we need to collaborate. So I hope that an institution like the World Health Organization will play a better role. In the subprime crisis, the G20 group played a very important role. In this crisis, which is a sanitary pandemic, COVID-19 crisis, and also an economic recession crisis, we don't have the kind of international governance that we need. And therefore I would hope that the two biggest economies and countries in the world, the U.S. and China, instead of facing and confronting each other all the time, will reach agreement and collaborate to lead the world out of these two crises.

EFFRON: Mr. President, do you think the framework we'll end up with is something that the world saw before 2016, obviously a lot has gone on since then, many countries have followed more populist, more isolationist mode like the U.S.—whether it's Hungary, whether it's Poland, whether it's Mexico—how do you think the world order shakes out over the next couple of years?

PIÑERA: Well, we'll see what will happen with the coronavirus pandemia because the second wave is hitting the U.S. and Europe in a harder way than the first wave. But once we are able to face and solve this challenge, and I hope the vaccine will play a critical role, we will need to face other challenges. We have already mentioned climate change and global warming. We have to deal and we have to face those two challenges because we know too much to accept it. We know what is going to happen if we keep going in the same direction that we are going now. We know that science has spoken loud and clear. The youth, particularly the youngest people, are asking us as a moral commitment to change the course of history. And we have the technologies to do things that were impossible ten years ago. So I think that we are not doing what we have to do and we are running out of time. And with the U.S. and China facing each other in every field, it will be very difficult for the whole world to face this in an efficient way.

And the second challenge, I think, is of course how to avoid the temptation of protectionism. We knew what happened after the big crisis in 1929. And the way that we have reacted to that, with protectionism, was the worst possible way to face that challenge. We hope that free trade, open trade, and with clear rules and known rules, and a stronger international or a stronger World Trade Organization will play a very important role. So there are many, many challenges we have to face. And I think that President Biden will imply a very significant change in the course and the way that the U.S. will be facing these challenges.

EFFRON: I want to talk about China in a bit and how it relates to Chile, obviously they are your biggest trading partner. But you probably are very focused on the health crisis. Chile, like many countries around the world, has been hard hit hard. Infections in your country were the eighth-highest per capita. That said, you did a good job stemming the infection, making a very science-based set of policies to combat it. What did you learn in the first wave that you think will benefit you as you try to battle the second wave? And what might you have done differently in hindsight?

PIÑERA: Well, let me show you some figures. Here we have the evolution of the active cases in Chile. We had a peak in mid-May, mid-June. And since then, we have already had five months of improvements—continuous steady improvements. And therefore now we are facing a very different situation than the one we faced five months ago. Why this has happened? Because we will hit very hard as almost every country in the world. First of all, we followed from the very first day a very ambitious strategy of test, trace, and isolate. Here you see that we are processing more than 50,000 PCR tests per day, which means that up to now more than 25 percent of our population have already been tested. In that we rank among the highest countries in the world. And of course we started to prepare by increasing and strengthening our health system from the month of January. Here you see that we were able to triple our capacity to provide all the medical services that the people infected would require. So we now see what has happened because nobody knows what will be the evolution. Right now the world is facing new records in terms of cases per day, death, and also is putting a huge challenge to the health system in developed countries like Europe and even the U.S. So we are preparing ourselves because we know that a second wave could come. And what we're doing, we are increasing our capacity to test. Chile is by far the country that is doing more tests and trying to identify the people that need medical treatment and identify the people that need to be in isolation in order not to keep the contagious process on path. So we are preparing for a second…

EFFRON: We're back, good. This is a very good example for why the fourth time we welcome you to the Council, it will be in person. Let's talk about COVID from an economic perspective and obviously Mr. President, hit your country at a very difficult time. You, like the U.S., like Ecuador, like Colombia, been coming through a period of unrest with the same kind of social justice, economic issues we've had here. You took the step to have a vote for a constitutional convention. And you also took a step to very aggressively spend, appropriately, 11 percent of GDP—$30 billion—to help unemployment, help middle class, help small businesses. Can you give us a little bit of the journey over the past year in your country and what you think your goals ought to be economically to get back to the growth of your first term but also do it in a more widespread basis?

PIÑERA: Well, you know that Chile has been a very successful story. We recovered our democracy in 1990. And then we had thirty years of good progress in every field based on three large and sound agreements. First, a commitment with democracy and the rule of law. Second, a commitment with an open, free economy. And third, a commitment to defeat poverty and move towards greater equality of opportunities. The results of the thirty years was we were able to multiply by more than five our per capita income. We went from sixth place to be the country with the highest per capita income and the highest social development in Latin America. We were able to reduce poverty from more than 50 percent to less than 10 percent. We were able to reduce inequality, but something was wrong. Because even the country was moving in the right direction, we didn't put enough commitment in reducing excess inequality.

And I think that in October last year, we experienced three different phenomena—at the same time, but of very different nature. First, an outbreak of violence, which was extremely violent and they destroyed our underground transportation system, churches, shops, buildings, and many other assets. And also, they destroyed the project of life for many people. The second phenomena was something that was a manifestation of people who wanted to go faster towards a more equal and sustainable economy. And the third one was the demand to restudy and reach a new agreement based in relation to our constitution. How did we react to these three phenomena? With respect to violence, we used the tools that the constitution and the rule of law gave us in order to protect public order and citizen security. With respect to the social demands, we reacted immediately with a very sound program—increasing the minimum income, improving the quality of health, improving the level of our pensions and many others. And now we are in a second stage because part of the constitutional agreement was to have a plebiscite that we already had on October 25, which was a very exemplary plebiscite, peaceful with no discussions, clean, transparent. And now we're in the process of reaching an agreement to cast a new constitution that, I hope, will be a source of stability, unity for the whole country. So we are moving in that direction. What are we doing in the meantime? In the meantime we are facing, of course, the coronavirus pandemia. As I was showing you before, now we are experiencing five months of continuous improvement in every sense with respect to the coronavirus. And that's not the case of the whole world. The whole world is reaching new maximums. The same thing is happening in the U.S., in Europe, and also in Latin America.

So from that point of view, we hope that we will be able to continue on this path. But, of course, we have to prepare for a second wave. And we are doing that. And the second thing is the international recession. I think that this year our GDP will go down between 5 and 6 percent. And we are prepared to recover that next year. And that's also good performance because many other countries in Latin America will see drops in their GDP of two digits, 12, 15 or more. So at the end of the day, what we are trying to do in these difficult times, is to be able to face the pandemia and face the risk...we have a second reason why next time we have to be in person.

EFFRON: Clearly correct. So we were discussing the constitutional convention and your goals for the economy. How do you ensure particularly when you have a year and a half of your term that the constitutional convention leads to an outcome that's a good framework but also attacks some of the gridlock you've had politically in your country, just like in our country, and sets up goals that are not necessarily too prescriptive where they have any unintended consequences, I'm thinking about Brexit, for example, and other countries where they've gone to referendum and ending up with a result that wasn't quite what they bargained for?

PIÑERA: Well, nobody can guarantee the outcome of a conventional process. But we are working hard to reach agreements, because the constitution has to be the place where everybody recognize itself. It has to be the rock of stability, of unity of the country. We have to discuss within the framework of the constitution. In Chile we have had forty years discussing with respect to the constitution and that's not good for anybody. So what are we expecting to have in the new constitution? First of all, Chile is a democratic country, and we hope that all the values of democracy will be in the new constitution. Second, some values which are key, the value of life, the value of the family, the value of freedom, all kinds of freedom, political freedom, economic freedom, social freedom, freedom of expression, freedom of religion, we want that to be very clear in the constitution—protected. But also, we would like to have a more sustainable society, more respect for the nature and the environment, a more inclusive society with more equality of opportunity. And of course, we have to defeat poverty, which is our main target. In our first term, we were able to reduce poverty very significantly, from 14 to less than 8 percent. Now we have to continue because Chile is able to be the first, hopefully not the only one, country in Latin American able to reach, to achieve development and to defeat poverty. Those are our main targets. And, of course, we have to recognize in the constitution some key basic rights for everybody—the right to education, health, pensions, right to housing. Those are the key issues that we would like to discuss and, of course, to keep the separation of powers, because that's the only way to keep our democracy alive and safe.

EFFRON: When you were with us two years ago, you talked a lot about demographics. Your country—aging population, 50 percent of population is working now. You have a very appropriate democratic immigration system. How does the whole notion of demography play into where you see Chile and achieving your goals?

PIÑERA: It is playing a very important role because Chile is aging, and very rapidly, for two reasons. First of all, because our life expectancy is going up. The life expectancy in Chile is higher than the life expectancy in the U.S. And also because we are having less children every year. And the combination of those two means that the population is aging very rapidly. And that generates all kinds of challenges, not only for the pension system, for the health system, for the kinds of cities that we need to have, for the kind of integration, how to integrate our elders to society. That's why a very important part of our government program is to face this aging problem. And to be able to have a more inclusive society, not only with the poor people, but also with the elderly. That's a very, very important goal for our government. And I think that interprets what the society is asking us for.

EFFRON: Thank you, Mr. President. A couple more questions then we'll turn it over. Prosur—you were a driving force to get a regional bloc of cooperation through Latin America. It's based on adherence to human rights, appropriate democratic freedoms. But you're also doing it in the face of a lot of polarization on the continent. Do you think that Prosur can be a bloc that over time might either approximate the EU or certainly something more formalized?

PIÑERA: Well, it depends on us. Prosur is an association of democratic countries in South America to join forces to reach development, to defeat poverty, to take advantage of all the opportunities. So all the countries in South America are part of Prosur, or they can be part of us, except one, which is not a democratic country. And it's not a democratic society, that's a key condition to be part of Prosur. Actually, we will have the annual summit of Prosur in a few days here in Chile, and there we will set the path for the future of Prosur. And what we hope? Of course, Chile has always been a very open country. We started by signing free-trade agreements very early with the U.S., with China, with India, with Japan, with Europe, with many Latin American countries. And therefore what we want to do with Prosur is to join forces, not to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world, but to go together to integrate Prosur to the whole world. And I think that the experience of Chile in the last thirty years, a democratic experience, a free market economic experience with a strong commitment with social justice, defeat of poverty, and equality of opportunity. It's a good experience. Of course, we learned in October, that wasn't enough. And that's not the fault of one government, these forces have been accumulating itself for decades. But we heard it, we heard the people, and we are taking steps in order to speed up the process, not only of the growth process, but to encourage a more inclusive and sustainable development.

EFFRON: So when you think about Prosur, most of your member countries actually have more trade now with China than with the U.S. What will be your advice to the Biden administration for the U.S. to regain its appropriate foothold and throughout Latin America?

PIÑERA: What I think that in some sense, you can have two elements. One is that the U.S. forgot about Latin America, and therefore they didn't put enough attention. And the other is that China has been very aggressive in Latin America in terms of trade, in terms of investment. What we like to have is free trade and free investments. And therefore, I think, that we should have a free trade agreement from Alaska to Thailand. That was the promise of President Bush, the father, in the '90s. We haven't been able to do so. So I think that the future calls for a new kind of cooperation. It's not the typical economic aid, which was the main problem in the '60s or the '70s. It's how to collaborate, how to take advantage together, there are so many opportunities. And I think that we have to do much better. And the U.S. has to do much better in the relation between the U.S. and Latin America.

EFFRON: Finally, you have a very unique perspective, having served two non-consecutive terms as president, and again I focus on the word unique, what did you learn in your first term that's made you a more able leader to sit in your second term with some of the experiences you bring to bear and just give us just some of your insights on a role that no one else has played?

PIÑERA: You know that eleven days before our inauguration ceremony, we had the fifth worst earthquake in the known history of mankind—eleven days before. And it destroyed almost one-third of our country, one out of every three schools, one out every three hospitals and so on. So we had the huge challenge, which was not part of our plan, to rebuild our country. And at the same time, we needed to recover our growth capacity, our capacity to create jobs, our capacity to increase salary, and the first term was very successful. The economy was able to grow around 5 percent on average per year. We were able to create one million jobs, which for Chile was a record number of jobs created. We were able to reduce the unemployment rate to very low levels. We were able to reduce inequality. So it was a difficult time, but it was, I think, a very good time. Now the situation has been extremely more difficult because the world has changed. Look what you're seeing in the U.S. in terms of public order, in terms of the relationship between the two parties. When have you seen the kind of confrontations that divide, that goes across America? So the situation, the world has changed. And the times are much more difficult and the challenges are bigger, so we need to do better. So I would say that what I learned from my first term is that the only way to move fast and in a safe way is by reaching agreements, by talking to the people, but by trying to convince people and be ready to be convinced, because that's the only way that the progress will be painless from our first term. Because in Chile we have had in the past all the experiences. We've had the socialist government of Allende, we had the military government, and now we have had a democratic government for the last thirty years. And the only way to progress is when you try to treat your adversary, not as an enemy, but as a person that thinks different from you and you can convince him, but you have to also be ready to be convinced. That's the main lesson—unity, dialogue, agreements. That's the best way to reach your goals.

EFFRON: Incredibly well said. And with that we'll open it up to our members. Sara, why don't we start to call. Let's get the questions if we could, please, short so we can get to as many of them as possible.

STAFF: [Gives queuing instructions.] We will take the first question from Clifford Krauss.

Q: Mr. President, nice to see you again. I'm Cliff Kraus of the New York Times. We met a few times in Chile years ago. I wanted to ask you about how things are going with your AFP system, your private pension system, which of course Chile was a pioneer for all of Latin America. How are things going?

PIÑERA: Well, there is a huge discussion in Chile with respect to the pension system. What we have had up to now is a mixed system. We have a private system, where basically every worker contributes 10 percent of their wages to fund the pensions in the future. And we have another system, which is funded and run by the government, which is a solidarity system. It's basically to improve the pensions of the people that have a very low pension or people that need to be supported in order to have dignity in their lives, especially in the last part of their lives. Now we are having a huge discussion, because some people want to get rid of this system and to have only a public system based not on individual accounts or individual savings, but based on a juror system that you contribute and the government will pay the pensions. And that's something that has been discussed right now. So I hope that we will be able to keep the essence of our system, which is basically that it will be a system with private participation where workers can contribute and they have their own savings account that belongs to them, and when they have to retire, if they have the amount of savings that they have is not enough, the government will complement those savings in order to guarantee a minimum pension.

And at the same time, I think that the system needs reform. That's why we have proposed a huge pension reform to Congress. The first part of that pension reform has already been approved in November of last year. And that has improved the pensions of 50 percent, the lowest or the most vulnerable part of our population by more than 50 percent. So 50 percent of the population has increased their pension by 50 percent because of that first part of our reform. Now the second part of the reform is to tackle the problems of pension with women and the middle class. And this has been approved by the House of Representatives and is now in the Senate. But I have to accept that there are many, many different views. And therefore, we will have to apply the first lesson that we learn from our first government—reach an agreement—a broad sound agreement in order to have a pension system which is stable and which will guaranty good pensions to everybody.

EFFRON: Thank you. Sara...So why don't we as we're figuring out our technology, can you, Mr. President, talk about the climate accords a bit. You are obviously at the forefront, very much at the forefront of the Paris accords. You have goals for Chile on emission standards, which I think are the envy of the world. What happens over the next eighteen months that we should all be doing to give you encouragement, obviously Paris being a part of it, but going beyond that?

PIÑERA: So many things have happened the last eighteen months. The world has changed so dramatically. But I will say that there are some issues that we have to face now in a different way because otherwise things won't change. The first thing is that we have to react and realize that climate change is a real challenge, a real threat, and what we are doing now is not enough. The Paris Agreements are not being fulfilled, and they were not enough from the beginning. That's why we are promoting what we call an Ambitious Summit to put together the countries that signed the Paris Agreement and say, we have to do much more and much better than that. And at the same time, we have to work in order to protect our free-trade system.

And one thing that we are very enthusiastic about, and I hope that Chile will be leading in this area, is green hydrogen. Chile was poor in terms of the old sources of energy. We didn't have oil, gas, or coal enough. But we're extremely rich with the new sources of energy. We have the desert in the northern part of the country with the highest radiance in the world. And therefore we are very competitive in producing solar energy. And the same thing with wind energy. And what we are investing now and we are doing all our effort is to transform Chile into a world power in terms of the production of green hydrogen, because we have the clean energy to produce the hydrogen and the hydrogen when it's burned, it doesn't create emissions, only steam. Therefore, I think that green hydrogen will be a huge contribution to climate change and global warming. And we want to be part of it in the first line.

EFFRON: Thank you. Sara?

STAFF: We will take the next question from Stephen Kass. Mr. Kass, please accept the "unmute now" button.

Q: Thank you, Mr. President. My question also relates to climate change. I was going to ask you about the domestic programs that you already began to discuss, but I think instead I'll ask you about a link to international trade. The New York City Bar Association proposed a few years ago a small financial transaction tax on international trade and movement of funds with the proceeds dedicated to climate adaptation in developing countries. Do you think that such a proposal would make sense?

PIÑERA: Of course that we need to support less developed countries in order to allow them to go through this adaptation process. In the case of Chile, we have committed ourselves to become a carbon neutral country before 2050. But we are already moving in that direction. It's not a plan, it's a process. How are we going to achieve that? First of all, we are decarbonizing our energy matrix. We will get rid of all coal energy plants, and we'll replace them by new clean, renewable sources of energy. And we are already going in that process. Already almost 99 percent or 98 percent of our investment in energy is clean, renewable energies. And we will be able to replace coal plants very soon.

The second thing that we are doing, we are electrifying our public transportation system. And that will be a huge contribution to reduce our emissions. And the third one, and in this, Chile has always been a very committed country, is to reforest, to increase the size of our forest in order to contribute from that point of view, to reduce the level of emission and have a more sustainable world. Because at the end of the day, I remember that I read in many magazines, a cover that said, “Let's Save Planet Earth.” It’s not the planet Earth who is in danger, it is the survival of humankind on planet Earth who is in danger. And therefore I think that we need to do more things in a faster way with more commitment. And that's something we're not seeing. That's why I think that we need to revive the spirit of Paris. And I hope that the U.S. will be rejoin the Paris Agreement and will give—because China is part of the Paris Agreement, and we will join forces to face the largest and most formidable challenge or threat that we are facing in our lifetime.

STAFF: We will take the next question from Latanya Mapp Frett. Please accept the "unmute now" prompt.

Q: Thank you so much, Sarah. And thank you, Mr. President for this dialogue. My name is Latanya Mapp Frett, and I'm the president of the Global Fund for Women. And we've just been informed that Chile will be joining us on the Generation Equality Forum for women and technology and innovation. And my question is simple, if you could just highlight some of the areas where you think Generation Equality is important for your administration and your thoughts around women and technology and innovation for the next decade.

PIÑERA: Of course, that we are fully committed with total equality of opportunities, rights, dignity, between men and women. Actually, the constitutional convention that has the task to propose a new constitution for Chile that will have to be approved by the people, will be composed of 50 percent of women and 50 percent of men. That's something that has never happened, I think, in the world. We are really, in that sense, we are a pioneer. And of course, gender equality is not a cause for women, it's a cause for everybody that wants a better world. So, we are working very hard—we have already eliminated all discrimination in our legal system. There is no legal discrimination between men and women. But of course, there are other discriminations which are of a cultural origin, which are more difficult to fight but we are doing that.

STAFF: We will take the next question from Richard Huber. Please accept the "unmute now" button.

PIÑERA: Richard?

EFFRON: Richard?

STAFF: Okay, we'll move on. We will take the next question from Hani Findakly. Please accept the "unmute now" button.

Q: Thank you very much. And thank you, Mr. President, for an excellent presentation. Congratulations on your successes so far. You've mentioned about the dip in the economy of Chile and other countries in the past year and spoke about the plans for recovery in the next year. I'm wondering from your experience, looking at Chile's economy and the global economy, many of the changes in the global economy as a result of the COVID-19 crisis, we've learned to do different things in the way we teach, the way we converse, and the way we trade. I'm wondering if those changes that have taken place so far this year, whether you consider those temporary or they longer lasting effects that will require you to reconsider and reconfigure your economic plans for the next several years?

PIÑERA: Well, of course that the coronavirus pandemic or the international economic recession were not part of our government program. And I think that nobody anticipated it, but we have to face them and that's what we are doing in terms of economy. The Chilean economy was growing between 4 and 5 percent until October of last year, and then we had to face new challenges. What happened in Chile, with the outbreak of violence, this demand for new social rights, and this demand for a new constitution, is something that has affected that. But what we are anticipating, we have already gone through five months not only of improvement in terms of the coronavirus, but also five months of recovery of our economy. The economy in Chile is growing again with respect to the previous month. We lost two million jobs in the worst part of the process and we have already recovered three hundred thousand jobs. So we are moving in the right direction in terms of the coronavirus and in terms of the recovery of the economy.

And for that we put in place two plans, which are called Step-by-Step. We protect ourselves which is a process of the confinement of the Chilean society—eliminating restriction to mobility, give more freedom to people—but at the same time with very strict health protections like washing your hands, using masks, keeping your distance and with very strict also sanitary measures. But we also have put in place another plan which is called Step-by-Step: We'll Recover Our Economy, which basically is the major plan of investment, private and public. A major plan to subsidize and promote new jobs, a major plan to facilitate and to get rid of so many restrictions and modernize the state, and finally, a huge commitment with small and medium-sized enterprises. That's the two plans that are moving together. They are part of the same process. One needs the other. They absolutely have to be very much coordinated and we are in that process. But we are fully aware that the coronavirus, all the confinements, the quarantines have produced a huge social impact on the Chilean population. That's why, from the very beginning, we created what we call a social protection net, which already is helping bringing relief to more than fourteen million Chileans. It means that three out of four Chileans are now protected and receiving relief from this social protection net. And that's something, for instance, it includes what we call a guaranteed family income. We have a minimum income for a family. So if they are not making enough, we complement that income to achieve that minimum level or guarantee a level. We have also taken steps in improving pensions, in reducing the price of medicines. So the social protection net is there to protect the people during emergencies. But we are fully aware that the only way to protect the people on a permanent basis is by recovering our capacity to grow, to invest, to create jobs, to improve salaries, to strengthen the capacity to innovate, and to have the capacity to undertake new projects. And that's why I'm very optimistic that the Chilean economy will keep growing, will keep recovering. Of course, nobody can guarantee this because we are fully aware that the second wave could have devastating effects like it is having in the U.S. and Europe.

EFFRON: Thank you. Sara, next question please.

STAFF: We will take the next question from Andres Small. Please accept the "unmute now" prompt.

Q: Hi, this is Andres Small from Partners Group. Thank you, President Pineda. I have a question, you've alluded to Chile in recent time seeing civil unrest and urging a faster reversal of income inequality, among many things. And unfortunately, they've turned violent at times, those requests. There's parallels to recent protests in the U.S., particularly the Black and other traditionally disadvantaged classes, that have fitted legitimate social request with the prioritization of law and order. My question for you is, I wonder if you find the U.S. protests comparable to those in Chile. And if so, what lessons you take away from each?

EFFRON: First of all, Chile is a democratic country and therefore people have all the rights to express themselves, and to manifest themselves, and to put the views over the table. That's something that is part of how democracy and is welcomed. And not only do we recognize that, but we protect that right. A very different issue is violence. And in Chile, we have had too much violence. We can never compromise with violence. We need to combat and to fight violence with all the tools of the democratic system and the rule of law. That's what we are doing in Chile. Now, if you see the world, last year and this year, we have seen issues of violence in so many countries. We've seen that in Europe, in the U.S., in Hong Kong, in in many countries in Latin America. And therefore we need to be very clear—welcome all the peaceful manifestations because that's part of democracy. But we will never compromise and we will always fight all kinds of violence coming from wherever they come with all the tools, with all the instruments that a democratic system gives us. That's why we have proposed to our Congress, many new laws to give us better tools and more effective tools to combat violence, terrorism, drug trafficking, and all kinds of organized crime. And unfortunately, we haven't been able to get those laws through Congress and we need those laws.

EFFRON: Sara, we have a few more.

STAFF: We will take the next question from Christian Gomez. Please accept the "unmute now" prompt.

Q: Hi, my name is Christian Gomez from Walmart. Thank you, Mr. President. I would like to ask you about Chile's business climate in the context of this health and economic crisis. For us security is a huge concern—we've experienced looting, civil unrest—and the regulatory side is relevant as well. Without the transparency, efficiency, and permitting, we really can't rebuild and grow and invest in Chile. The last thing I just wanted to ask you about was the creation of a new social contract in Chile. We're presenting a lot of these lower income, base of the pyramid communities, and we understand our customers, our employees and local small suppliers well. We really can bring that perspective into the dialogue, into this process so we just want to offer to help in that respect. Thank you very much.

PIÑERA: What is true, pleased in that, at the end of last year, we had an outbreak of irrational and unacceptable violence. They put to fire more than 80 percent of our underground transportation system, destroyed supermarkets and shops, and small enterprises, churches, whatever they could put to fire they did. That something which, unfortunately, is supported by some groups within our own country. We have a clear view—we will never compromise with violence. We will never accept that the threat or the [inaudible] that the violent people want to put in front of us that they say, you do what we say or we will keep committing violent acts. We will and we are combating violence and at the same time, we are listening and we accept and we sympathize with the expression, the will, the manifestations, and the demands of the Chilean people.

EFFRON: That you. Sara?

STAFF: We will take the last question from Kezia McKeague.

Q: Hi, my name is Kezia McKeague. I'm a term member of the Council on Foreign Relations and a member of the Latin America team at McLarty Associates. I'm joined by my colleagues, Kellie Meiman Hock and Gabrielle Trebat, who have worked on Chile for many years. Mr. President, as you noted, there's currently a robust debate in Chile on how to best increase access to health care and pensions. Can I ask how do you see both of those issues evolving both inside and outside of the constitutional reform? Thank you.

PIÑERA: Kezia, of course, that the pension reform and the health reform are not only part of our main priorities but are the main demands of the Chilean people. That's why, in terms of pensions, we started long before what happened in October of last year with a very ambitious pension fund, or pension system reform. As I told you before, we have already improved by 50 percent the pensions of 50 percent of the Chilean people and the most vulnerable people. Now we have to go one step further, because we also need to improve the pensions of the middle class, and especially women because they are not well protected in our pension system.

With respect to health, we also have improved. And in our [inaudible], we are investing—I don't want to give you figures because they don't mean—but we are doing a huge effort to increase not only that the number of hospitals and infrastructure, but also to increase the number of doctors and specialists. To increase the quality of our technology we have put together a digital hospital that is able to reach every person in anywhere in the country with the best technology to be part of the solution because pension and health are very important in a country like Chile, not only because we are aging so rapidly, but because to have guarantees that if you are sick, you will receive good quality treatment. And if you are old, you will receive a pension that will allow you to live with dignity—I think the main basic needs of everybody.

EFFRON: Mr. President, last question—on Venezuela. You've always been a leader in coordinating South America's response. When you're with us last you spoke a lot about Venezuela, it has been quiet for a while. Where do you see it now and do you have any reason for optimism that something might change with the new U.S. administration?

PIÑERA: Venezuela is not a democratic country. In Venezuela there is no freedom, no respect for human rights. There is no respect for freedom of expression. But not only that, they also are going through a very deep moral crisis, because corruption, drug trafficking in Venezuela is not only a task of semi-organized crime organizations. I think there are very strong links with people in the government. And the third is that they're going through a huge social and economic crisis. Venezuela was the richest country in Latin America. Venezuela is the country with the highest reserves of oil in the world, and they are starving. And I think that the only solution for Venezuela is to have a free democratic and transparent election and let the Venezuelan people decide where they want to go because I'm sure that they will never choose the path that they are forced to follow now, which is a corrupt, inefficient, and non-democratic society.

EFFRON: Mr. President, we thank you. You as always incredibly informative, incredibly enlightening, and we look forward to welcoming you back in person when we can all travel again. Thank you very much.

PIÑERA: Bye-bye.

(END)